artist, journalist, bodybuilder, practitioner of new technologies... You've been described as an superhuman object of desire, combining the virtues of Madonna, Schwarzenegger and Marcel Duchamp. How would you describe yourself ?

I like being referred to as superhuman and an object of desire!

Could you tell us something about Extropism and Transhumanism ?

My deep interest in pursuing knowledge about life extension sciences and technologies is steered by a practical optimism. It is essential to continue evolutionary advances by using technology to extend life, augment intelligence, optimize psychology, and improve social systems. We are changing and we will continue to acquire greater capabilities with which to enjoy our lives and the universe around us. In doing so, I find it advantageous to challenge conventional thinking about human limits and think about how technologies will improve our future.

The footnote here is that attempting to change conventional thinking requires both sensibility and understanding. Many people find it difficult to adapt to new ways of thinking, especially when it involves biotechnology. Rather than alienate those who question the ethics or the direction of science and technology, I try to understand opposing views.

Extropy Institute acts as a repository and portal for detailing information on advanced technologies and their positive potentials as well as their challenges, and their possible dangers.

The extropian philosophy is a specific type of transhumanism and a philosophy of life that seeks the continuation and acceleration of the evolution of intelligent life beyond its currently human form and limits. The integration of technology seems to be a positive way to do this as evidenced by any heart transplant and prosthetic limb. The extropian philosophy encourages the use of science and technology, guided by life-promoting values.

This form of technophile optimism seems to correspond so perfectly with what is essentially the geographic cradle of Hollywood stars and Silicon Valley start-ups, that it's hard to imagine Extropism or Transhumanism originating anywhere else other than California. To what do you attribute the particular brand of energy and, often extraordinary, expression of avant-gardism, which apparently excites and inspires this corner of the globe to such an extent ?

Actually, transhuman ideas didn’t start in California, but it did develop here. The ideas have been derived across geographic landscapes and psychological borders. In my book Create/Recreate: The 3rd Millennial Culture I discuss the beginnings of transhumanity. I wrote about the transhuman timeline and designed a graph (“Transhuman Timeline”) indicating human ingenuity over centuries and manifestation of our ideas.

Many of the ideas that transhumanists expand on today were developed over time and those who first used them did not refer to themselves as transhumanists, but in essence they were because they wanted to expand on life in positive ways and understood our continuous merging with technology.

The first transhumanist ideas were presented by the author FM-2030 at the New School of Social Research in New York City in 1960s. I started Transhumanist Arts in the early 1980s based on my work generated in the 1970s while living in Telluride, Colorado. Although FM influenced my work immensely early on, I continue to be influenced by many individuals who have an uncanny ability to understand the complexities of the future and make is warm and delightful.

However, living in California, and perhaps Hollywood, have given me a broader understanding of how the world works. It’s quite an enormous playing field. The incomparable philosopher Max More created Extropy Institute based on his extropian transhumanist philosophy in the 1980s. It was in the late 1980s and early 1990s that transhuman ideas started flourishing and this was certainly due to FM, Max and myself and others here in Southern California.

Which of the following would be most fully embody the concept of Transhumanism : - a top model whose body has been remodeled by cosmetic surgery and who spends her time jetting between 5 captials and 4 continents.
- an astronaut in an orbiting space station whose daily bodily functions are reviewed in minute detail by a whole battery of machines.
- a bisexual porn star, tattooed, pierced and running their own |website...

At first blush, number 1 or 2. But, being transhumanist and being a transhuman are different concepts. A transhuman is an evolutionary stage from being exclusively biological to becoming post-biological. Post-biological means a continuous shedding of our biology and merging with machines. On the other hand, a transhumanism is not an evolution but a philosophical viewpoint.

Okay, now back to my choices. I’d have to go with number 2. This astronaut exists outside the gravitational field of the earth and her body is working with machines as a synergistic system to protect and monitor her life. It would seem that she, out of the three, would be psychologically supportive of far reaching technologies and extreme life extension. Number 1, the jet-setter is transhuman in her body because of the biological modifications, but her mind could be either intelligently developed or pigeonholed in deathist desires. Number 3 seems to show the least outward physical appearance of a transhuman, but clearly she has moved beyond conventional sex-gender dogmas in her bisexuality but she might be a religious fanatic and not interested in life extension.

You appeared with your husband in the article 'The Future Gets Fun Again' in the January 2000 issue of Wired and I imagine you share the author's enthusiasm. How do you manage to stay so optimistic when so many of our contemporaries, including a large number of intellectuals and scientists, have serious reservations about our future on this planet ?

WIRED’s piece “The future Gets Fun Again” or “Don’t Die, Stay Pretty” was an exciting interview for me because I was asked about future transhuman bodies and I was able to elaborate on speculative ideas about posthumans. I was delighted to be featured on the splash page across from Ms. Calment – known for having lived longer than any human. I think that one reason it’s not difficult for me to be optimistic about the culture and the future is because I enjoy problem solving and I my radar is persistently focused on psychology. The latter is a favorite pastime for me. Why does a person think the way he does, what happened in his life to cause him to have one reaction rather than another. Why do some people gyrate toward one particular belief system over another?

Humans and transhumans are complex creatures and our thinking is full of contradictions. Someone may be very advanced in one line of thinking and very archaic in another. Another reason why I am able to be optimistic is because I have enormous respect for human and transhuman cognitive capabilities and our ability to put our words in to action. Ingrained in our psychology is a desire to overcome odds and these are the people I tend to bet on.

How are your views generally received by the media ? I would imagine that your unadulterated confidence in the future and your voluntarist optimism must have shaken up a fair few...

So far so good. I have been interviewed for many television programs and there was only one program I was totally embarrassed about. It was called “The Other Side.” The producer tricked me into thinking that they were supportive of superlongevity. Not. I was also on The Geraldo Rivera Show, and Geraldo was enthusiastic, but then I didn’t discuss anything really pertaining to human/machine interface. Most of the print interviews I have done have been quite good, but only a smidgen are skeptic. I’d like to do an interview with Interview magazine and also appear on Barbara Walter’s show, and Politically Incorrect. This would give me more of a finger on the pulse.

What's a typical day in the life of an Extropian ? One can conjure up a picture of you all living in palacial californian residences, rubbing shoulders exclusively with the beautiful and intelligent, revelling in a hedonism light years away from the reality of the working masses... Practically a eugenicist's dream come true/ wet dream.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I live in an aesthetic environment and love rubbing shoulders with beautiful people. But I view beauty as a seven-letter word: intelligence. One aspect of my life that I keep close to the chest is that I live a duo-life. One half of me is in Telluride skiing, the film festival, at Hollywood’s parties and celeb friends. The other half of me is content working in my digital studio, writing, going to the gym, playing with my cats, gardening and taking short walks to the ocean.

But let me get back to your question. Most of my research is produced with people I meet in every day life situations. I have worked with the many types of people because it creates a balance in my own life. For example, I was in the merchant marines for a couple of years as the chief and I sailed on merchant sea vessels. I was also a construction worker in Vail, Colorado at one time. There is a type of Gurdjieff-like quality to learning how to free oneself from class stature and discover what it is like to be around those who have no idea of my own background.

Yet, at the same time, I am very comfortable in the company of some of the worlds most intelligent, talented and beautiful people. There is something very moving about being with close to such elegance as Raquel Welch or Sophia Loren, talking with such great minds such as Carl Sagan or Marvin Minsky, or exploring a creative moment with such talents as Volker Schloendorff or Francis Ford Coppola.

You wrote the Extropic Art Manifesto. How do you see the evolution of artistic expression in the 21st century. Some would say that everything has already been done in art. What would be your reply to them ?

Gary Snyder said it best in an essay in his book A Place In Space. That essay is titled "The Porous World":

"When asked 'What is finally over the top of all the information chains?' one might reply that it must be the artists and writers, because they are among the most ruthless and efficient information predators. They are light and mobile, and can swoop across the tops of all the disciplines to make off with what they take to be the best parts, and convert them into novels, mythologies, dense and esoteric essays, visuals or other arts, or poems. And who eats the artists and writers? The answer must be that they are ultimately recycled into the beginners, the students. That's where the artists and writers go, to be cheerfully nibbled and passed about."

This paragraph is raw and rich and provoking. It reminded me that yes, indeed, this is what I enjoy. And it reminded me that this is why I learned the "skill" of "art"—to develop a keen awareness of the times in which I live and to integrate what I value into whatever artistic mode works best for me and to feed that synthesized and nourished matter back into culture.

What changes in art and the arts are the tools. It is tiresome to deal with some of the people behind the emerging technologies that will improve and extend our lives and try to explain to them why the arts are integral. Why develop ways to live longer if we do not emphasize the wonders and joys of life! Humans, including transhumans, want to express themselves. Self-expression is a marvelous way to free the human/transhuman spirit and develop a sense of courage and resourcefulness. It helps to instill a sense of self-responsibility as well as compassion.

You practise bodybuilding daily. Could you elaborate on the relationship between your work as an artist and this discipline ? I believe that you view the body as a medium for artistic expression, a medium to be shaped and transformed according to one's desire and inspirations...

Yes, I view the body as an artistic expression. I also view the mind and manner of living as artistic expressions. What if a body could be more powerful, better suspended, more flexible, its body offering extended performance and Italian style. What about a body with a Metabrain — the expansive interior giving 100 quadrillion plus synapse capability with a wide range of optional features. And, perhaps a nano-engineered fluid chassis reconfigures under the guidance of networked AI.

The body, as we transform ourselves over time, will take on different types of appearances and designs and materials. Consider the body as a fashion statement and having the ability to alter it in many ways to reflect how one feels and what one is doing. I would want a different design for a party look than I would want for hiking a mountain. But both designs I’d like to have my body accommodate my needs.

For hiking a mountain, I’d like extended leg strength, stamina, a skin-sheath to protect me from damaging environmental aspects, self-moisturizing, cool-down capability, extended hearing and augmented vision (Network of sonar sensors depicts data through solid mass and map images onto visual field. Overlay window shifts spectrum frequencies. Visual scratch-pad relays mental ideas to visual recognition bots. Global Satellite interface at micro-zoom range).

For a party, I’d like an eclectic look - a glistening bronze skin with emerald green highlights, enhanced height to tower above other people, a sophisticated internal sound system so that I could alter the music to suit my own taste, memory enhance device, emotional-select for feel-good people so I wouldn’t get dragged into anyone’s inappropriate conversations. And parabolic hearing so that I could listen in on conversations across the room if the one I was currently in started winding down.

Looking at society on a broad scale, there seems to be an imbalance between how much effort we invest in actively pursuing sensory experiences and how much we passively experience sensory stimuli. We know that our brains sort through sense information to keep us from being bombarded by an information brigade. The brain’s gauge on the amount of sensory data we receive is to protect us.

We should be very glad for this, but it seems that a full enjoyment of the senses for aesthetic purposes is somewhat restricted. Could there be a social imprint on our minds instructing us to believe that pleasurable senses are semi-erotic—a taboo—too much of a pleasure to fully exercise? Is there an innate psychological auto-turn off switch?

Throughout culture, historical icons are often those who “feel” something more than others do and express it in unique ways. We are often fascinated by someone who “sees differently” or has a “different perspective” on life. Although Oscar Wilde said, “It is better to have a permanent income than to be fascinating”

In Walter Jon Williams’ Aristoi, the character Gabriel was a sensory elite. He designed the World, Illyricum and gave it an alluring blue light. His environment “had to be not simply real, but finer, more real, than reality itself.” He designed his appearance with a “slight exaggeration built into its visual and tactile dimensions.”

In-depth training of the senses is often thought to be only for the artist, the gifted or talented, but not for everyone. Thus, just as someone may not take the time to study astrophysics or computer programming, one may not take the time to study the senses. Such training is designed to teach a person how to fully recognize the value of aesthetics and brings it into focus as a quintessential part of life. As Goethe said, “Our senses don’t deceive us: our judgement does.”

Emphasis on one sense over another may lead to an individual sensory hierarchy. Dancers are kinesthetically dominant and designers are visually outstanding. Musicians use the auditory sense foremost and haute couture, a sense of touch. Although the hierarchy is understandable and necessary in this regard, an expansive full use of the senses gives a broader and richer scope. Just as a musician who is not tactilely sensitive or who does not see the musical note may be sensorially handicapped, the person who does not fully use his senses may be missing out on many experiences and wonders of life.

Shaping the mind is quite a skill and talent! We can change ourselves by first wanting to, and then taking action.

With respect to the human body, are you interested in body modifications and the work of artists such as Sterlac who focus on implants and body extensions. Your own approach seems a more naturalistic one by comparison.

I like Stelarc and look forward to a collaboration at some point. Where we both augment and enhance our bodies and integrate our bodies with machines. Both of us are performance artists and both of us are excited about augmenting our bodies and brains. Perhaps the difference between our art is that I am involved in superlongevity and lift weights? I think that as far as posthuman (no longer exclusively biological) is concerned, nobody knows what we will look like, or what we will be. Putting a piece of technology on one’s body does not necessarily make good art, nor is it futuristic. What goes on in our brains – how we think – is much more impressive, and eventually the meshing of human and machine that be “natural” and the late-transhuman stage as “natural” as how humans view themselves today, that a posthuman will not seem to remote.

Freeing the self from biological constraints, increased life expectancy and immortality are some of your main concerns. What do you think the next technological discoveries or revolutionary breakthroughs are likely to be which will bring us closer to achieving these goals ? Do you believe that we might live to witness such cataclysmic developments in our own lifetimes ?

I think that reversing aging is a next big step. Once we understand what causes death, we can handle disease. Another big step will be designing whole body prosthetics. Nanomedicine will have a major influence on medical procedures.

What advice would you give to someone who wished to improve their life expectancy ?

Protect yourself. Keep learning and improving. Exercise and enjoy life. Discover what makes you happy and put as much of it in your life as possible. Stay away from anyone who interferes with your well being: your family and your livelihood. Say away from people who think they can trick you into believing they are smart but really want to take your essence. It’s a bad investment. Get a pet and a loving bedfellow or bedfella.

. I became interested in Cryonics in 1996 when working on a documentary and drew the conclusion that the current available technology is insufficient to guarantee that it will be possible to revive those whose bodies have been suspended/preserved in liquid hydrogen. How did you react when Timothy Leary - one of the main protagonists of this technique - finally decided not to enter into Cryonic Suspension at the Alcor Life Foundation and how do you feel about it now ?

Timothy Leary was a friend and someone I adored. I was at his home two months before he made that decision. We made a video together and discussed cryonics and he let me know then that he was considering different avenues. I was deeply saddened by his decision not to be suspended. I remember after his death the memorial service held at the Santa Monica airport. It was almost unbearable. It was a sanctimonious display of death—as if dying were an honor. My personal feeling is that Tim was very impressionable during the final stages of his life and the people who spent a lot of time around him had specific religious beliefs. While cryonicists were trying to be respectful of his privacy, others were trying to influence him away from cryonics. Perhaps if more cryonicists hung around his house and camped out in his living room he would be suspended now. I suppose Tim is immortal after all, isn’t he? His brilliant and riveting ideas still carry on, if only in digital form.

Let’s not end on that note! I’d rather fill my mind with all sorts of challenging ideas. Currently, I’m working on a new book project A Talent For Living: 20 World Class Thinkers Crack the Myths of Mortality. My reason for engaging myself in this project is because people have written about he sciences and technologies of extending life but not why we would want to live longer. There is a sense-ability to living which is deeply ingrained in how seriously we take our future and how enthusiastic we are about our passions.

We must explore what we admire and have an affinity for. We must pay attention to cultural nuances. Change is nourishment. If we aren’t busy moving toward the untapped ideas—however smart, stinging and verifying—we are busy dying.

Additionnal reading on the web…

Natasha Vita More’s personal website.
The Extropy Institute’s website.
Max More’s personal website.